Manson Murder Cult Member Dying, Applies for Parole

[Ungodly]

Convicted murderer Susan Atkins, a former member of the lunatic Manson murder cult, is dying of cancer at the age of 60.  Originally convicted for her role in the famous Tate Labianca celebrity murders, she had been sentenced to death.  When a later court ruling found the then current California death penalty unconstitutional, her sentence like that of other Manson cult members was commuted to life in prison with the possibility of parole.

Now she is in a hospital with terminal cancer, she has had one leg amputated, and her attorney has applied for compassionate parole, claiming she poses no threat to society.

Nobody is claiming that she is not guilty of the horrific crimes in which she did participate.

Nobody is disputing the claim that she is terminally ill.

It does seem reasonable to conclude that she poses no threat to society.

Yet very many prosecutors and citizens are vehemently protesting her parole application.

(story)

Should our society show compassion to a person who is dying, even if that person has committed horrible crimes in the past?

I'm inclined to think that showing compassion to this woman is an OK thing to do, and that our society would be improved if we made an effort to be compassionate even to the worst people among us.  I'm not suggesting that violent criminals should not be removed from society, this will always be necessary because of the flawed nature of human beings.  But I do believe that when we retreat slightly from an adamant and unforgiving stance we improve ourselves and the world we live in.  I would have no objection if this woman was granted a parole.  I have no particular sympathy for her, and of course I completely and totally reject violence that is performed or advocated by any type of cult, religious or as in this case simply psychotic.

What do you think about this case?

[Storybook]

I'll give it more thought but for now my gut feeling is to keep her in prison.  If she is let out of prison then tons of others will want to be let out for all their medical reasons. 

Does the health of a prisoner make any difference on whether they serve their prison term or not?

Do you know how long the doctor thinks she has to live?

[Ungodly]

I'll give it more thought but for now my gut feeling is to keep her in prison.  If she is let out of prison then tons of others will want to be let out for all their medical reasons. 

Does the health of a prisoner make any difference on whether they serve their prison term or not?

Do you know how long the doctor thinks she has to live?

I heard she had 2 months or less left.

[Ungodly]

I see that her request for parole was denied.  To my way of thinking this case brings up an issue about crime and punishment that I think remains highly ambiguous in our society.  I think it would be a good thing if this ambiguity was resolved.

When a person is convicted of a crime, do we send them to prison in order to punish them, or do we send them to prison to protect society against the probability that this person will commit another crime?

I think that, as a society, we really, really need to give more attention to this dichotomy.

If we send people to prison to punish them, then it does make sense to imprison people for minor, victimless crimes such as possession of marijuana.

If we send people to prison in order to protect society from a person who is now known as a criminal, then it makes no sense to imprison people for victimless crimes like minor drug law violations.

I guess it is also possible that our current practice involves a little of A and a little of B, but I find that nonsensical.

In my opinion we should only imprison people if their previous actions have demonstrated that they do pose a threat to law abiding citizens.  This might be a threat to property rights, as in a convicted burglar, or a threat to a person's well being, as in a rapist or a Catholic priest.

And, depending on the severity of their crime, it might be reasonable to imprison them indefinitely or until they have demonstrated that they are rehabilitated and no longer a threat.

[Storybook]

I don’t agree with sending people to prison for possession of marijuana or other minor drug law violations.

I’m not sure how much “rehabilitation” goes on in prisons.  Many prisoners are not able to ever be rehabilitated, no matter how much therapy they get. 

[Ungodly]

I don’t agree with sending people to prison for possession of marijuana or other minor drug law violations.

I’m not sure how much “rehabilitation” goes on in prisons.  Many prisoners are not able to ever be rehabilitated, no matter how much therapy they get. 

Of course you are correct that there is no rehabilitation in prisons today, in fact most ex-cons come out of prison more hardened and anti-social then when they went in.

My point is that this is BECAUSE there is no consensus about why we put people in prison, and because we are not clear on WHY we do it, we are unavoidably confused about WHAT to do.

Our present "justice" system is based on the concept of getting even with criminals, an eye for an eye, you did this so we are doing that.

I contend that this feeds ands perpetuates crime because we discard people to the trash pile and constantly tell them they are bad.  Maybe they are bad, but do we want them to be?

I think that many people who commit a crime could be rehabilitated - if that was our goal, and because it was our goal we had a plan, and because we had a plan we acted on that plan.

But we give up and we create this dichotomy between Good Guys and Bad Guys.  Maybe it is really a dichotomy between people who make dumb choices and people who do not get caught making dumb choices.

Maybe we could save people if we were in agreement that this was our goal, and our justice system was redesigned to straighten people out instead of punishing them.

Now in the case of this psychotic murderer, the burden of proof should be very high to establish that she was rehabilitated.  I'm not very disappointed that her parole was denied because she has not expressed remorse for her crimes.  So even if she did pose no threat, she had made no progress toward becoming a responsible member of society.

Take the case of a person who operates a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or other mind altering drugs, and then causes an accident.  This is criminal behavior, people that do this should be strongly discouraged from doing it again, like locking them up so they can't do it again.  But a person like this does not act with malicious intent, and it might be possible to get them to a point of acting like a responsible adult.  We should not put these people in the same places as murderers and rapists who clearly do act out of malice.

I just think as a nation we are very confused about what justice should be and do, and as a result we have a higher percentage of people in prison than any other nation on Earth. That is fucked up.

Are Americans really the worst people on the planet?  I don't think so.

Our "justice" system has become a profit making industry that feeds on anyone that crosses a certain line, whether or not a compassionate and thoughtful approach might reduce the prison population.

[lady]

Short:
I think she and others in similar situations should be let out.
NO Reasons...

[Storybook]

Take the case of a person who operates a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or other mind altering drugs, and then causes an accident.  This is criminal behavior, people that do this should be strongly discouraged from doing it again, like locking them up so they can't do it again.  But a person like this does not act with malicious intent, and it might be possible to get them to a point of acting like a responsible adult.  We should not put these people in the same places as murderers and rapists who clearly do act out of malice.

The problem with drunk drivers is that these people often tend to continue driving while drunk.  Maybe their intent was not malicious but their irresponsible behavior can cause death to other innocent people.  I know I would be livid if a person with numerous drunk driving violations was let out of jail only to kill one of my loved ones while driving drunk.  No, I don't think these people should be locked up in jail forever but I don't know what the answer is to rehabilitating these people since alcoholics have a high rate of recidivism.

[Ungodly]

The first thing we need to do differently with alcoholics is quit teaching them that they are powerless and they must depend on a "higher power" a/k/a Yahweh.

There is no higher power, therefore no higher power can help anyone with anything.

[Storybook]

I don't believe in any supernatural deity that will help people on earth but if that belief can help someone to stop drinking then I don't care if people themselves.

[Silentknight]

And just how do you know that she won't rip off her other leg and try to beat someone to death with it?