20 replies to this topic

[nogodbutdog]

The U.S. apologized Tuesday for the burning of Muslim holy books that had been pulled from the shelves of a detention center library adjoining a major base in eastern Afghanistan because they contained extremist messages or inscriptions.

The White House echoed military officials in saying that the burning of Qurans and other Islamic reading material that had been tossed in a pile of garbage was an accident.

As a nation that takes pride in aggression during war and boorishness and cultural insensitivity during peace, it's fair to ask the question: how did we let ten years pass before doing this?

"It was not a decision that was made because they were religious materials," Allen said. "It was not a decision that was made with respect to the faith of Islam. It was a mistake. It was an error. The moment we found out about it we immediately stopped and we intervened."

It was an epic, preventable error of biblical proportions. NATO forces in the area should have assigned an Islamic cleric to their chaplain corps; someone who could have functioned as a sort of cultural ambassador to local religious institutions, and advised commanders on ettiquette and cultural sensitivity issues. This incident could have been avoided on the cheap. And if one was available, our officers had no excuse for not consulting him.

The Quran is the most sacred object in the daily lives of Muslims and burning it is considered an offense against God. The Quran is so important in the faith that Islamic teaching spells out how it should be handled, including directing anyone who touches it to be in a state of ritual purity. Muslims can only dispose of Qurans in very specific ways, including burning or burying those that have been damaged or corrupted to prevent God's word from being defiled.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that their books shouldn't be treated like an ordinary piece of trash. It wouldn't have been difficult or costly to figure out a respectful method of retiring their holy books and disposing of them appropriately. That being said, disposal was our only viable option at the time. If prisoners used the books as message pads recruit followers to extremist causes or organize criminal activities, then those Qurans were pre-spoiled before we threw them on the incinerator. Keeping those books out of the hands of active insurgents was a legitimate force protection concern.

US apologizes for Quran burnings in Afghanistan

[Ungodly]

I agree that this entire incident was bone headed and self inflicted, maybe it was an Army Intelligence project?

We know that there are some right wing fundamentalist Christians in the US Army. If they want to serve our nation I'm all for it, as long as they are serving the interests of our people and nation. We also know that sometimes fervent religious zeal can induce a person to do things they otherwise might consider unwise or unethical.

It has occurred to me that there could be elements of this Quran burning that are not known to the public. For example, I can easily imagine a scenario in which a Christian acting on behalf of Sky Monster chose to burn those holy books out of spite and to serve Sky Monster. If this were true it might provoke an even more intense reaction focused on Christians as well as Americans.

In any case it was so stupid and so boneheaded that even the Pentagon had to admit it, that does not happen very often. This story may have even bypassed the firm denial stage, always the first response from Pentagon spokespersons when we screw up with weapons.

Sometimes if you don't want to piss people off you should refrain from doing things that piss them off.

On the other hand, the morons that are rioting, killing and destroying property are not to be admired. It's a case of stupidity in defense of ignorance, but they should be allowed tp be stupid as long as they are only harming themselves. Rioting because a book was burnt does not do much good. The way these people are reacting one might suspect that homo sapiens is merely another animal species subject to impulsive, irrational pack behavior.

In this case the people we are pissing off the most are the same ones with the most severe religious delusions, and we already know that severe religious delusions are like a gateway drug that can lead to terroristic actions, like Timothy McVeigh. We will never know how many pious young Muslims we have radicalized into a lifetime of hating us.

Some of the people in Afghanistan think we are an invading army of activist foreigner illegals. I wonder if they think we are there to take their jobs?

[Great Ape]

I agree, the incident could easily have been obviated. With a few precautions and some forethought this situation would never have transpired. This is yet another example, of the US military and government, being seen to have a callous attitude towards Islam.

However, the believers response to the accidental book burning is disproportionate and unreasonable. Is it really necessary that people must die because a book was burned? Whether the burning was accidental or intentional, there is no reason for loss of life to ensue because of it.

This is what happens when believers take their holy books too seriously. That they would be upset about the burning of the Qur'an is understandable and acceptable. That they would be willing to kill because of this, is fanatical, severe, and excessive behavior. Their surfeit of emotion can be placed squarely on their perfidious belief that the Qur'an is sacrosanct and the holy of holies.

The Qur'an is so important in the faith that Islamic teaching spells out how it should be handled, including directing anyone who touches it to be in a state of ritual purity.

Although there hasn't been any loss of life associated with this incident, it could easily have occurred. In fact, it is surprising no one was killed or injured. I believe that is, probably, only because of lack of opportunity. Given the chance, I have no doubt lives would have been lost. Consider the following paragraphs.

In April 2011, Afghans protesting the burning of a Qur'an by a Florida pastor turned deadly when gunmen in the crowd stormed a U.N. compound in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif and killed three staffers and four Nepalese guards.

Demonstrators who gathered outside Bagram Air Field, one of the largest U.S. bases in Afghanistan, shouted, "Die, die, foreigners!" Some fired rifles into the air. Others threw rocks at the gate of the base and set tires on fire.

"They should leave Afghanistan rather than disrespecting our religion, our faith," Hakim said. "They have to leave and if next time they disrespect our religion, we will defend our holy Qur'an, religion and faith until the last drop of blood has left in our body."

Attempts by the US government to ameliorate the situation have proven unsuccessful. The United States military and government have proffered sincere apologies and explained the book burning was accidental. However, all efforts to propitiate the indignant, affronted, obdurate, religious believers; and defuse the situation, have been ineffectual.

To be succinct, they are incensed about the accidental burning of the Qur'an. Nothing we do or say will appease them. Die evil Americans.

Once again proving, all that is required for believers to kill for their religion, is a mere insult.


Update: Three people have died and twenty have been injured due to this incident according to today's news. And so it goes when people value religious relics over human life.

Three dead in the protest against burned Qur'an in Afghanistan

Edited by Great Ape, 25 February 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Ungodly]

For smartest species on the planet we sure seem to have cherished and preserved a whole lot of stupid over the centuries too. If we had less stupid it would make us smarter.

I sometimes wonder if, in the final analysis, trees will be found to be a more intelligent form of life than humans. Look at the behavior of trees. They stand their ground. They persevere. They never run from a fight. They do one thing, and they do it well. They are so patient that they usually stay in one spot their entire lives, unless some human interferes and moves one. Trees hardly ever do anything stupid, except for dropping stuff on my car which is really dumb, but apart from that almost everything a Christian says sounds dumb compared to the stone cold silence of a tree. At least trees are never actively, intentionally stupid.

Have you hugged a tree yet today

PS: we do not recommend the use of trees to print Bibles, talk about irony!

[Great Ape]

For smartest species on the planet we sure seem to have cherished and preserved a whole lot of stupid over the centuries too. If we had less stupid it would make us smarter.

I'm all for less stupid. First we must rid ourselves of ancient superstitions. After that herculean effort is accomplished, we will need to rid ourselves of other stupid things humans do. The task is prodigious. I have a sad feeling 'The Stupid' is going to be around for a long time.

Have you hugged a tree yet today

I hugged a tree and I liked it.

[Ungodly]

We also do not recommend the use of trees as firewood for the purpose of burning books, any books, holy or not. Using trees to print books is much nicer than using trees to burn books.

<changing_subject>
I like to sit out on our rear deck and watch the birds hanging out in and on our trees. Sometimes with a camera.



</changing_subject>

Killing people over a book? Srsly? I do not think so, no. The stupidity of the punishment exceeds the stupidity of the crime. It's not Fair and Balanced. The soldiers involved should have been handled exactly as they are, being told to not be so stupid and to think about things before doing them.

[Joe Bloe]

The U.S. apologized Tuesday for the burning of Muslim holy books that had been pulled from the shelves of a detention center library adjoining a major base in eastern Afghanistan because they contained extremist messages or inscriptions.

The White House echoed military officials in saying that the burning of Qurans and other Islamic reading material that had been tossed in a pile of garbage was an accident.

I don't believe the White House explanation.

My guess:

• A decision was made to clear out the building
• Hey they are our holy books!
• Fuck your holy books, I'm fighting a war here.
• But you can't just burn them.
• Oh can't I? Watch this.

• What's going on here Sergeant?
• Sorry boss, it was an accident.

[Ungodly]

That's fairly sinister, granted, but I'll see your deliberate burning and raise you a mission from gawd. Really, some right wing fundie might have thought Jeebus would like him to do this, in other words it might have been Jeebus based asshole behavior and not just ordinary asshole behavior. Possibly.

[Great Ape]

That's fairly sinister, granted, but I'll see your deliberate burning and raise you a mission from gawd. Really, some right wing fundie might have thought Jeebus would like him to do this, in other words it might have been Jeebus based asshole behavior and not just ordinary asshole behavior. Possibly.

While I agree it could have happened either way, I edited Joe's sinister secular version to reflect sinister Christian influence. :

• A decision was made to clear out the building
• Hey they are our holy books!
• Fuck your holy books, I'm fighting a war here.
• But you can't just burn them.
• Oh can't I? Watch this.

• What's going on here Chaplain?
• Sorry boss, it was an accident.

Edited by Great Ape, 25 February 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[nogodbutdog]

At least trees are never actively, intentionally stupid.

The point is moot. All trees must be mown down to prepare for the Second Coming. Our biblical commandment to dominate and subdue the earth, taken to its necessary conclusion, obligates us to flog it to extinction.

Jeebus will return to congratulate us on a job well done only when our natural resources are finally expended. And you know what our greatest resource is...

[Phil]

Being an avid book collector my self I would never burn any book. And while I do not have a copy of the Quran I would not burn it for spite. I have some religious books that I should burn but I am not....

[Ungodly]

I have copies of the Bible and intend to keep them. I don't consider the book a relevant source of moral guidance but it certainly has had enormous impact on human history, so it is wise to be aware of it.

In fact I once attended a Bible study class run informally in the home of a Quaker. The intent of the class was to try to understand the book in its historical context and it was intentionally skeptical and analytical. This was a long, long time ago when I was the father of young children.

Books should never be burnt with the intention of suppressing their content. History shows that this has a high rate of failure and unintended consequences, plus it is wrong and stupid too.

[Phil]

Well said. I agree.

[Great Ape]

When I mentioned earlier I hugged a tree and I liked it. This is the tree I was hugging.

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[Great Ape]

The protests continue. Five days of chaotic street battles have left more than 30 people dead, including two U.S. military officers killed Saturday in a heavily guarded Afghan government ministry.

[Source]

[Ungodly]

When I mentioned earlier I hugged a tree and I liked it. This is the tree I was hugging.

That was a very nice tree. Some people hug trees in a vulgar fashion, unlike yourself. For example

[Great Ape]

That was a very nice tree. Some people hug trees in a vulgar fashion, unlike yourself. For example

I want to hug that tree too! I guess I am just a tree hugger at heart.

[Ungodly]

I was actually tricking you, the Swiss Army Knife Vatican guards won't let you anywhere near this Holy Site, because this is the Holy Shrine of Our Lady of the Virginal Hardwood Vagina.

[Great Ape]

I was actually tricking you, the Swiss Army Knife Vatican guards won't let you anywhere near this Holy Site, because this is the Holy Shrine of Our Lady of the Virginal Hardwood Vagina.

Trick me will ya! Why you.....

[nogodbutdog]

Don't worry, you can always hug these trees. The Swiss Army Knights say its okay.