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The World Health Organization Promotes Traditional Chinese Medicine


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#1
jonathanlobl

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The World Health Organization Promotes Traditional Chinese Medicine

 

 

https://sciencebased...scientific-tcm/


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
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#2
JadeBlackOlive

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Uh, no, I'll stick with my Canadian trained doctor's help.


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#3
jonathanlobl

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Uh, no, I'll stick with my Canadian trained doctor's help.

 

 

I can't help wondering.  Is China exerting political pressure?  TCM looks like something the government would be in favor of.

 

When the Falun Gong people started making health claims; the government of China might have conducted clinical trials.  Instead, they outlawed Falun Gong.

 

It starts making sense, if these are competing cults.  One in favor.  One out of favor.  None of this is looking like Medical Science.  It does look like competing religions.

 

I hope I'm not being unfair.  It's hard to tell.


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#4
Frozenwolf150

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The only traditional Chinese medicine backed by actual studies is acupuncture for chronic pain.

https://www.health.h...in-201304016042

 

As the study stated however, it has a very modest effect on pain, and may have more to do with other factors.  I suspect these factors could include the application of heat, the relief of stress on the patient, or the simple act of lying down and relaxing in a darkened room.  Such was the clinical setting when I got acupuncture in a desperate attempt to treat my chronic migraines 4 years ago.  I went in with a highly skeptical mind, not expecting any of the miracle cures that some unscrupulous practitioners promise.  I was fortunate to have an acupuncturist who was honest about what it could and could not do, saying it wasn't a cure, but a potential tool in my pain management.  Eventually I had to stop, because it simply wasn't working.

 

If acupuncture works, then it works through known mechanisms.  It triggers the nervous system to release endorphins in response to a perceived injury.  That's all it really does.  If your nervous system has deficiencies in this regard, like mine does, then it's not going to work.  Incidentally, this is why some people with severe physical or psychological pain resort to self-injury, because the body releases endorphins in response to the injury.

 

There are more reliable ways to release endorphins.  Exercise is a good option.  Eating hot peppers works very well.  Acupuncture just didn't do it for me.


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#5
jonathanlobl

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The only traditional Chinese medicine backed by actual studies is acupuncture for chronic pain.

https://www.health.h...in-201304016042

 

As the study stated however, it has a very modest effect on pain, and may have more to do with other factors.  I suspect these factors could include the application of heat, the relief of stress on the patient, or the simple act of lying down and relaxing in a darkened room.  Such was the clinical setting when I got acupuncture in a desperate attempt to treat my chronic migraines 4 years ago.  I went in with a highly skeptical mind, not expecting any of the miracle cures that some unscrupulous practitioners promise.  I was fortunate to have an acupuncturist who was honest about what it could and could not do, saying it wasn't a cure, but a potential tool in my pain management.  Eventually I had to stop, because it simply wasn't working.

 

If acupuncture works, then it works through known mechanisms.  It triggers the nervous system to release endorphins in response to a perceived injury.  That's all it really does.  If your nervous system has deficiencies in this regard, like mine does, then it's not going to work.  Incidentally, this is why some people with severe physical or psychological pain resort to self-injury, because the body releases endorphins in response to the injury.

 

There are more reliable ways to release endorphins.  Exercise is a good option.  Eating hot peppers works very well.  Acupuncture just didn't do it for me.

 

 

I have arthritis.  I tried a pepper based ointment for my neck.  For a while, it felt good.  About four or five hours later, when I had to pee -- the pain levels were shocking.  That's one mistake I'm not going to forget.

 

I find menthol based ointment helps.  It produces a cooling sensation.


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
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#6
JadeBlackOlive

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During physio for my sciatica years ago, the therapist gave me a free acupuncture treatment to try to help where the other treatments weren't. She had been trained in China to do it. She also attached needles to my ears, covered them with tape, & I was to regularly squeeze these. It was totally useless.


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#7
jonathanlobl

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I think my own health plan includes acupuncture.  I've never felt motivated to give it a try.

 

I have found some short term pain relief from Reiki.  Very short term.  It helps, but I don't think it helps enough to matter.  It's a thing of great sadness and a hard pill to swallow.  I have extensive training in Reiki.  Sometimes, the truth really blows chunks.  That is the problem with being evidenced based.  When the evidence isn't actually there; no matter how much I want it.....  In the end, the truth is the truth.


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#8
Ungodly

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People who have experienced prolonged intense pain tend to develop coping methods, especially the ones who do not commit suicide. By that I mean a person able to cope with their chronic pain is less likely to feel suicidal.

This is anecdotal, but I have found that when we pay more attention to our pain it feels more intense. And of course when pain becomes more intense we naturally tend to pay more attention to it.  For minor, non-disabling pain I find that if I somehow virtually pat it on the head, oh you poor knee for example, it tends to be less distracting.

 

Wish-based therapies offer us something else to think about, the opportunity to sell to ourselves the notion that we feel better. With humans, if you think you feel better then you do.

 

There is a real thing called the placebo effect. Don't be fooled into thinking that the placebo effect is all in a person's head - their entire experience of life is in their head. The fact is the placebo effect is real, it can be predicted with some accuracy, and it is not completely understood.

 

If you give 100 people a treatment that you claim will help their symptoms some of those people will report success. Their symptoms really are gone. No doubt believing we will get better does help us get better. Then there is the fact that symptoms of many things go away spontaneously all the time, so why would that not still happen after taking a placebo?

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#9
jonathanlobl

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Thank you.  I'm aware of placebo.  I've stopped taking a variety of things, recommended by my Arthritis doctor, because they didn't make enough of a difference.  Some things that she recommended have helped a lot.

 

Vitamin D3:  After not taking it for three or four days, everything hurts more.  Well, not everything.  My hair feels the same.      [smilie=happyspin.gif] 

 

A muscle relaxer.  Methocarbomol:  When I don't take it for about three weeks, the leg cramps start in.  The kind of thing that wakes me up out of a sound sleep, with shooting pain.  Now, I take it.

 

Fish Oil -- Omega 3:  I stopped taking it.  The change in my pain levels was minimal.  My primary care doctor (pcp  put me back on it for different reasons.  So, I take it.

 

 Garlic, Cinnamon and Ginger:  I tried taking them.  I tried not taking them.  They seem to help.  The benefit is less clear.  At least they are harmless.  And cheap.

 

Turmeric:  Not so cheap.  I stopped taking it.

 

My exercise program helps a lot.  Tai Chi for Arthritis.  The pain levels are way down and the swelling is greatly reduced.  I'm teaching it at my local senior center.  It's helping them.  

 

I still do Reiki for my friends.  It does provide short term relief for pain and stress.  At least it's harmless.  Much like Homeopathic.  I'm not sure how much benefit there is.  The objective evidence is lacking.  In the end, I stopped charging money for it.  You know.  Ethics.

 

There is a back story here.  I used to have a Reiki practice in a Chiropractic office.  They eased me out.  My clients were getting better.  They would have some sessions with me, then stop coming for half a year.  They would come back for a refresher session, then stay away for another half year.  There's no money in people getting better.  The Chiropractor didn't like it.


Edited by jonathanlobl, 12 June 2019 - 05:01 AM.

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Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
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Minister, First Church of Atheism (05/10/2008)


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#10
Aging Disgracefully

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I'm happy to report I have been taking Omega-3 Fish oil for a couple of months now and the arthritis in my hands and shoulders is a lot less painful. Even my knee with a big knot in it feels better. I call it a knot, it's a  bony growth from a knee injury. I've never had it looked at, just because I would rather just put up with it, it never bothers me while bike riding and only gets bad if I walk too many miles.

An eye Doctor told me I should take it, it's good for your eyes and it has helped my dry eyes too. So I'm sold on it.

 

I totally agree thinking about your pain, well my pain, makes it worse. I don't know how many times I've commented on an aliment and said.."Well if I don't think about it, it doesn't feel so bad." 

 

Mind over matter does work in some cases.


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#11
jonathanlobl

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I'm happy to report I have been taking Omega-3 Fish oil for a couple of months now and the arthritis in my hands and shoulders is a lot less painful. Even my knee with a big knot in it feels better. I call it a knot, it's a  bony growth from a knee injury. I've never had it looked at, just because I would rather just put up with it, it never bothers me while bike riding and only gets bad if I walk too many miles.

An eye Doctor told me I should take it, it's good for your eyes and it has helped my dry eyes too. So I'm sold on it.

 

I totally agree thinking about your pain, well my pain, makes it worse. I don't know how many times I've commented on an aliment and said.."Well if I don't think about it, it doesn't feel so bad." 

 

Mind over matter does work in some cases.

 

 

 

I'm still taking my fish oil.  My health plan doesn't cover it, even though two of my doctors said to take it.  


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
"We don't know and we don't care."

Minister, First Church of Atheism (05/10/2008)


"Never trust the clergy!" Jonathan Lobl

#12
Aging Disgracefully

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I'm still taking my fish oil.  My health plan doesn't cover it, even though two of my doctors said to take it.  

That's right, they won't cover anything helpful that doesn't come from Big Pharma!


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#13
jonathanlobl

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That's right, they won't cover anything helpful that doesn't come from Big Pharma!

 

 

 

My over the counter card, pays for my Vitamin D -- but not the fish oil.  The fish oil is out of pocket.

 

Is Vitamin D, Big Pharma?  None of this makes sense. 

 

I'm actually getting the fish oil from my pharmacy, by prescription.


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
"We don't know and we don't care."

Minister, First Church of Atheism (05/10/2008)


"Never trust the clergy!" Jonathan Lobl

#14
Aging Disgracefully

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My over the counter card, pays for my Vitamin D -- but not the fish oil.  The fish oil is out of pocket.

 

Is Vitamin D, Big Pharma?  None of this makes sense. 

 

I'm actually getting the fish oil from my pharmacy, by prescription.

It is weird what they will pay for and won't, especially if you have a prescription for the fish oil.


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#15
jonathanlobl

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It is weird what they will pay for and won't, especially if you have a prescription for the fish oil.

 

 

My Primary Care Doctor prescribed it for my cholesterol.  The Arthritis Doctor prescribed it for my inflammation.  No go.  It's out of pocket.


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
"We don't know and we don't care."

Minister, First Church of Atheism (05/10/2008)


"Never trust the clergy!" Jonathan Lobl

#16
JadeBlackOlive

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Don't know about there, but here, its also rather pricey.


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#17
jonathanlobl

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Don't know about there, but here, its also rather pricey.

 

 

I think it's about $5.00 a month.  Enough to be irritating, but not an emergency.  


Minister, Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic (02/20/2002)
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#18
JadeBlackOlive

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Much higher here.


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