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Sensible Christian offers self for discussion purposes...

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25 replies to this topic

#1
Jinny the Squinny

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... go on then, ask me anything. :-)

#2
Sandy

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Okay Jinny, I have a question or two. Please explain to me why Christians tend to run from the truth? So many claim to have demons in their brains that tell them to kill their children, or try to force an illegal war, or simply follow a man who claims to talk to Jesus and then lies to the people who elected him about taking us to war? Where is the rationality in all this?

The Christians that I have known well have no intention of keeping their oaths in any way. They treat the 10 Commandments as if they were just a joke. I come from Catholic Father and a Mormon Mother who were married so many times I've lost count. Alcohol ruled their lives and killed the both. My husband was the son of a Baptist minister and is on wife number 5 at this time. The hypocrisy of this crap is way too hard for me to swallow.

If anything that has taken our American country down the drain it is the influence of the Christians. I wish they would leave the government alone so we can return to an honest debate of what we need to do next.

If I had any advice for Christians I would tell them to get their ministers and priests under control. Stop the child abuse and stop lying to the congregations about the lies developed about Jesus Christ. The Christians are ruining his name!

#3
Jinny the Squinny

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I think the problem with Christians is the same as the problem with any individual who has a problem. I've seen plenty of leaders wage war for any number of excuses. And of course, the answer is in their lack of true rationality.

People who live unthinking, unchallenged lives and just blindly do whatever they've been brainwashed to do don't have any real moral strength so when faced with a choice or temptation are the first to fall. The mis-use their rational faculties by using them to justify their behaviour within the terms society gives them. This is true regardless of which of society's institutions we have allowed to brainwash us. I've seen atheist arseholes blame their behaviour on following the rules of capitalism, and of course "the devil made me do it" is just a Christian equivalent of "it was profitable!" They're all just convenient excuses for people who do not wish to face up to their own failings and stupidity and do not wish to challenge their lives.

It is perhaps all the more ironic when people blame Christianity... after all, Jesus was very big on personal moral responsibility and not being afraid to go against the rules of the crowd in order to do the right thing.

I think the actual question is, why do humans hide from the truth? When I analyze my own fuck ups in this area it's usually a desire to avoid pain. But I'm lucky, I have a rather high "pain" tolerance for life's inconveniences (it's not natural, it's a result of my christianity). People who find it hard to live without their house, car, iPod or whatever run the risk of fucking up every time those things are threatened, and will pay lip service to any rule society offers that could justify their behaviour.

#4
Sandy

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Jinny, another problem that I face almost daily are the new Christians who developed their spiritual selves through a 12 step program in A.A. During their indoctrination, they are told that they can only stop drinking (or what ever is their problem) if they accept Jesus as their savior. They are so eager to stop their habit that they become instant Christians and it grows from there.

I come from a long line of drunks and A.A. never worked for any of them. I think their problem was they were raised in the church and basically didn't believe so that system failed. I can only say that whatever it took to break their habits I would have to go along with. Someone mentioned a 12-step program for chronic Christians and that sounded like a great idea.

#5
Jinny the Squinny

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AA does that?

#6
Ungodly

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AA does that?


AA is a born again Xian movement with a light, furry outer coating that makes it seem inoffensive.

It really is cult-like in the way it insists you can not solve your problems yourself and you must rely on, and thereby submit to, an Imaginary Bearded Social Worker, or Deity, or something. Oh yeah, it's a higher power.

Higher than whom? And how can they tell who is the highest?

I think my power is higher because we buy our electricity from Southern California Edison.

#7
Jinny the Squinny

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I really had no idea AA was a Christian organisation...

#8
Ungodly

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I really had no idea AA was a Christian organisation...


You won't get them to say that they are a Christian group, they will claim to be non-denominational. And of course even if they are non-denominational that does not preclude their being Christian.

Perhaps it is Christianity in disguise. Maybe AA is to Xianity as Santa Claus is to the God of Moses, you know Jehovah Lite.

I am under the impression that you could be fairly described as a non-denominational Christian. The significant difference that I see is that you don't go around encouraging vulnerable people to adopt some cult-like dependence on some group.

Maybe you can tell by now, but I think AA, though no doubt completely well intentioned, is using a flawed approach to helping people with addictive behavior problems.

In my world view, any power I have to overcome this or that personal problem is a result of my determination, nature, experience, and the roll of the genetic dice. Not from an imaginary higher power.

I guess my differences with AA and similar organizations is really very much fundamental. I hope that does not make me a Fundamentalist.

#9
Jinny the Squinny

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I am under the impression that you could be fairly described as a non-denominational Christian. The significant difference that I see is that you don't go around encouraging vulnerable people to adopt some cult-like dependence on some group.


I would say "non-religious Christian". :-)

I only go to church for entertainment purposes, about once a year or less. I find church to be an inherently un-Christian thing, and have got into rows a few times in chat rooms by trolling my opinion that all church buildings should be converted into decent housing and given away to the poor. :-)

I think with addictions any method will work if the person attempting it really wants to give up anyway-- the method just has a placebo effect and makes someone more confident about it.

#10
Sandy

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My main questions to the Christians are "why get your doctrines into our government?" "do you not give equal freedoms to Jews, Muslims, women, gays and why don't you?"

The concepts of Christians 50 years ago was to be good examples of what Jesus Christ did and said. Today, Christianity has become a movement to destroy the freedoms of anyone not part of the religious right.

My interest is in politics. I don't give a damn if you believe in any God or all of them. You do not belong in the practice of changing our Supreme Court judges, changing the many Amendments to the Constitution that gave everyone a sense of freedom. I've asked a thousand Christian ministers and they all feel that their job is to get everyone signed up behind Jesus so they can face the afterlife on judgment day. It is a quota that is asked of them.

I've yet to meet a Christian who actually can name the 10 Commandments and most of them come up with the Bill of Rights. Italy has suffered from Catholicism far too long and it has destroyed any form of good government.

Nobody want to close a church but we are all fed up with the hypocrisy found in the religious right. If you want to believe in the afterlife, go for it, but stay the hell out of our end of life choices in America. Stay out of the personal choices of women who want to control the size of their family and shut up about gays marrying. The number of Catholic priests who are pedophiles is shocking but seems to go over the head of the religious right and the Vatican.

You Christians got your man elected twice in the white house and I hope you are satisfied with the number of Americans who were sacrified for a lie. You have some P.R. needed and you need it fast!

#11
Jinny the Squinny

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You Christians


*sniggers*

#12
The White Coyote

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Uh Sandy? You better ask Jinny where she is? :lol:

#13
Sandy

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So where is Jinny?

#14
Ungodly

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So where is Jinny?


A few things about Jinny

* Lives in the UK
* Not a Fundamentalist
* Not anti-gay, pro right wing, or oppressive
* Smart lady
* Not my ex-wife Ginger

#15
Sandy

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I find nothing wrong with your list. I would like her.

#16
Jinny the Squinny

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You forgot to mention, I'm pot smoking, foul mouthed, mockney, not religious and have studied philosophy and theology at a secular university and read a shit load of stuff on all subjects.

So, now we know I'm not likely to give typical fundie answers, any more questions? :-)

#17
Sandy

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Actually, you sound like a typical Christian to me.

#18
Jinny the Squinny

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Being called a "typical Christian" tends to leave me speechless. ;-)

#19
Sandy

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You'll get over it!

#20
Jinny the Squinny

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I generally do... I just need a prod to get me started. :-)


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