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Fundamentalist Atheists - A new Religion?

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#1
The White Coyote

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I have noticed lately on another forum, that there seems to be a turn towards hardcore fundamentalist Atheists. There seems to be this intolerance to the point of not just discussing but really getting nasty and biligerant towards anyone, and I mean anyone who isn't absolutely militant about Atheism. I am just wondering how long it will be before they come after me?

I take a lot of pride in the fact that I was raised to be respectful and open to any and all beliefs. I try very hard to listen and watch before I open my mouth. When I am attacked or insulted I will strike back, but until that happens or if the person just starts off as a nutcase then I try very hard.

Lately though it seems with the banning of so many fundys, the members are turning on each other. It is only a matter of time before they come after those of us who aren't hardcore Atheists. Consequently I am fearful to post anything more than humorous comments and litehearted quips.

It is almost as if being an Atheist is a new religion thats rules must be followed to the letter and there is no tolerance for "non-believers"

Anybody else notice this? I am posting this over here because of the backlash I feel would be generated over at EA.

#2
Jinny the Squinny

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Some people are just desperate to be right... what can you do?

#3
Ungodly

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Lately though it seems with the banning of so many fundys, the members are turning on each other.
...
It is almost as if being an Atheist is a new religion thats rules must be followed to the letter and there is no tolerance for "non-believers"

I think it is only a few individuals that are behaving this way, and I don't think they are taking over the place.

I might have spoken differently, and in fact I think I did in a PM about a week ago, but I think it is starting to turn back around there again.

A certain Dutchman seems to be doing a good job of getting one or two militant posters to tone it down a bit.

There may be one more forum member on that system that needs to tone it down a bit, but I don't think that person represents the group as a whole.

#4
FlatEarth1024

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I wouldn't call it a militant atheism. Each of the people in question have a specific social or polical agenda that has little to do with religious beliefs.

At its base, it is simply a case of everyone who does not agree with me is wrong and I must pummel you until you either go away with tucked tail or you finally just agree with me out of exhaustion. If neither of those work, I will then label you with a disdainful title and trot out that label anytime you try to gain ground on the subject.

I don't really think atheism has much to do with it other than the those members claiming it as one of their tenets.

#5
Frozenwolf150

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I saw it happen on evilbible.com, so I left. I saw it happen on ravingatheist.com, so I left. I saw the beginnings of fundamentalist atheism among certain EA memebers, so I recused myself from posting there before the shit really hit the fan.

The sick irony of this is that atheism by definition should not even leave any room for fundamentalism, since it technically is not classified as a belief, ideology, or worldview. However as with any label, anyone with a strong opinion can easily exploit it as ad hoc justification for their extreme views. As some of you are aware, there are anti-semites who call themselves atheists in order to justify their hatred of Jews and the religions they are responsible for. These people start off with a platform of hatred and only later do they bring in "atheism" as practically an afterthought. (The head of American Atheists is a good example of this kind of asshole.) It's similar to how dictators like Stalin spread the communist ideology as though it were a religion, and later brought in atheism in order to keep out competing religions.

The member in question did in fact refer to himself as a "militant atheist" FYI. I don't understand how anyone with such a visceral hatred of religious people can possibly function in society without choking on their own bile. I don't hate Christians, nor do I necessarily hate Christianity. It's the abuses of Christianity and other religions that concern me, and to assert that the fanatical minority are representative of the religion as a whole is a clear cut generalization fallacy that any skeptic should be wary of.


Here's my stance. Religions are a lot like drugs. They can be useful in small measures, but dangerous when abused. If you want to use them, that's your choice; that's your decision, so long as you keep it to yourself and don't make it my or anyone else's problem. If they make you act in such a way that you violate my rights or put others in harm's way, then we have a big problem.

#6
Ungodly

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[quote name='"Silentknight"]The sick irony of this is that atheism by definition should not even leave any room for fundamentalism' date=' since it technically is not classified as a belief, ideology, or worldview. [/quote']

Exactly. Atheism is merely the absence of a particular belief, the belief in one or more deities.

Atheism is to religion as virginity is to sex. Well, it would be if you could give up sex and thus restore your virginity, so i guess the comparison is somewhat flawed.

#7
The White Coyote

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I guess you are right I just feel as if it's getting more militant everyday. I understand it is an atheist site but it is also a forum where different views have been expressed and I don't remember the backlash being so ferocious and condemning. I am afraid to post anything that may hint of any belief for fear of a whipping.

#8
Jinny the Squinny

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It's certainly a while since my theism became such an issue in the other place... I'm used to just being politely passed over. :-)

I'm somewhat perturbed because it's the first time anyone on the net has ever assumed I'm younger than I am... it is not the compliment being thought younger in the flesh is, lol!

#9
Ungodly

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Is it the case that one person in particular is responsible for much of the distress being felt at a certain forum?

#10
The White Coyote

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I noticed that too Jinny. Actually I have always enjoyed reading your views. Like I said it seems to be out of hand and I figure I am next.

#11
FlatEarth1024

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I noticed that too Jinny. Actually I have always enjoyed reading your views. Like I said it seems to be out of hand and I figure I am next.


I gotta confess, TWC. I tend to follow your posts around because I almost can't wait to see the next meltdown. I know...thats bad :Wink:. You are definitely squarely in the crosshairs lately.

#12
The White Coyote

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I do tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and just let it all hang out but here lately I am laying kinda low. I know that I will probably be next as I think the drive is to get nothing but hard core atheists over at EA. Hell Flower can't even respond to me without insulting and Dax is getting so biligerant towards anybody that doesn't agree with him that I know my time is coming. I think my experience with the military and my age and my native American faith is like having two strikes against me and all it will take is one wrong swing and they will jump on me like buzzards on a fresh killed buffalo. It's been real hard not to jump in and defend Jinny. I know she can handle herself though and that is all that has kept me from opening my mouth. She's always been a reasonable, and respectful member and there is no reason for being so mean towards her. I may not agree with Jinnys beliefs either but I sure have a lot of respect for her right to believe whatever she feels is right for her. I don't think being nasty does anything but ruin relationships.

#13
Ungodly

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I've found that injecting unrelated humor, preferably off topic, can defuse a situation sometimes. It might even deflect , if momentarily, those who post out of emotional need.

#14
The White Coyote

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Yes I have seen you do that. It's a good tactic but it seems a shame that we should have to resort to "deflecting" when a conversation doesn't have to be nasty.

#15
Ungodly

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Yes I have seen you do that. It's a good tactic but it seems a shame that we should have to resort to "deflecting" when a conversation doesn't have to be nasty.


Indeed! It should be the usual case that conversations online are friendly, especially when they are among regular users of a forum.

#16
Jinny the Squinny

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I may not agree with Jinnys beliefs either but I sure have a lot of respect for her right to believe whatever she feels is right for her.


And that, old chap, is what "fundies" of all flavours fail to grasp. I truly believe what seems right to me, and I find it entirely plausible that many people with different beliefs feel the same way. Because we're all different. Why should someone in a completely different context feel the same way I do about the world?

It seems to be a tenet of atheist fundiesm that all xians are deluded, stupid or brainwashed, much as it's a tenet of xian fundiementalism that all atheists are in denial.

Fundiementalism in a nutshell: "what is right for ME is right for YOU". Or perhaps, "What I believe to be the case is the noumenal truth".

Atheist fundies seem to see the study of phenomena (science) as revealing the noumena: but is this truly possible? I really don't think so. It's more probable than the idea that ancient myths tell noumenal facts when taken at face value, sure: but being more probable than bullshit aint really that much of an achievement. :roll:

#17
The White Coyote

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being more probable than bullshit aint really that much of an achievement.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You do have a way with words my luv!

#18
Frozenwolf150

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I do tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and just let it all hang out but here lately I am laying kinda low. I know that I will probably be next as I think the drive is to get nothing but hard core atheists over at EA. Hell Flower can't even respond to me without insulting and Dax is getting so biligerant towards anybody that doesn't agree with him that I know my time is coming.

Hence one of the reasons I left. Just look at the last thing Hell Flower said to me in my farewell thread. She's becoming almost as bad as nunyabiz. The phrase "ethical atheist" is not an oxymoron, but some of the members are certainly hypocrites.

I think my experience with the military and my age and my native American faith is like having two strikes against me and all it will take is one wrong swing and they will jump on me like buzzards on a fresh killed buffalo.

It's strange that you would feel that way, because I always saw those as your greatest assets. However considering the recent effort to drive away anyone who isn't a hardcore atheist, you're probably right in the sense that your background has become a liability.

#19
The White Coyote

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:oops: just a matter of time.

#20
FlatEarth1024

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I still think you guys are mistaking the term "militant atheist" when you really mean "foul-tempered atheist". Take the never ending, increasingly hysterical conspiracy rant. What does that have to do with atheism? And the tendency to react to anything remotely anti-feminine/minority (even imagined) with insults, sarcasm and name-calling. What does that have to do with atheism? I don't believe either of those things speaks for or against religious beliefs as much as it speaks to the personalities of the folks involved.

I believe it all boils down to this. Some of the people we meet are just not very pleasant individuals. I mean, if they were fundy trolls, would it be easier to take them because they were the 'enemy', and so we expect them to act like that? Are we disappointed in their behavior because we expect them to act like us since we share certain beliefs?

I make the distinction because in a lot of ways I consider myself somewhat of a militant atheist, i.e. on guard against the Xian right and willing to put myself at risk to help ensure a place for people to live free. I'm also a mostly pleasant person. What you guys are seeing is nasty, angry, unpleasant behavior on a strictly social level. It has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism.


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