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Fundamentalist Atheists - A new Religion?

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30 replies to this topic

#21
The White Coyote

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It's the attacks on Jinny that made me take notice. Jinny has been around EA a long time. Even took us over to her site during a firestorm. Everyone knows her and likes her. So why all of a sudden the attacks on her beliefs? It wasn't happening until Dax got rid of the lsat bunch of fundys. Very peculiar timing I'd say.

#22
Ungodly

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I don't believe either of those things speaks for or against religious beliefs as much as it speaks to the personalities of the folks involved....

What you guys are seeing is nasty, angry, unpleasant behavior on a strictly social level. It has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism.


Bingo. That is the essence of the problem.

#23
FlatEarth1024

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It's the attacks on Jinny that made me take notice......It wasn't happening until Dax got rid of the lsat bunch of fundys. Very peculiar timing I'd say.


As I've maintained in the past...sometimes the only thing holding a group together is a common enemy. When the trolls were storming the gate, the entire membership united in fighting them off. Then they were gone, and people suddenly were forced to deal with one another. Now the warts are starting to show.

As for Jinny, why the surprise? With no trolls left to fight, she's a natural target. She holds a different point of view. She must be crushed. See, there is no more 'agree to disagree'. We have become as bigoted and closed-minded as those we oppose. It pains me to see some of the recent outbursts of one particular member. I had come to think of him as a voice of reason, sometimes the only one. Lately, though, he sounds like Nunya without the conspiracies.

I guess it is human nature. "When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer". The trolls are gone. Now we'll turn on each other until the next troll invasion unites us again.

#24
Ungodly

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The trolls are gone. Now we'll turn on each other until the next troll invasion unites us again.


This does not seem to happen here, or here yet. Is it just because we have not had a troll invasion?

Or is it because this is such a small crowd here?

#25
FlatEarth1024

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The trolls are gone. Now we'll turn on each other until the next troll invasion unites us again.


This does not seem to happen here, or here yet. Is it just because we have not had a troll invasion?

Or is it because this is such a small crowd here?


Or is it because for the most part only the more level-headed of us has found our way here thus far?

#26
Frozenwolf150

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I haven't read any of Dax's recent posts, but it sounds like there is a relation between the banning of trolls and his increasingly aggressive behavior. For the time that the religious trolls were allowed to run rampant on the boards, he was the one standing on the front lines to beat them down at every opportunity. Now that they're gone the problem is that he doesn't seem to have any setting between "off" and "maximum". He's still in attack mode but there's no one left to attack, so from what you've described he's going after the closest thing resembling an opposing viewpoint.

It's rather disillusioning to see this kind of crap coming from members of a skeptic community, because it takes a very primitive mindset to thrive on conflict inasmuch as the only uniting factor is a common enemy that we hate more than each other. I suppose the reason I find this thinking so unusual is because I never made the same mistake of generalizing all Christians or theists as "the enemy that must be destroyed at all costs". After all I like many people have Christian friends and relatives, and I live in an area with a very diverse set of religions. Time and again I've had to point out to other EA members that fundamentalist Christians do not represent Christians as a whole, and in fact are in a dying minority. Your average Christian would in fact find the rhetoric coming from the religious right to be just as abhorrent as we find it. Why drive away people who may potentially be sympathetic?

I've heard the argument from several atheists that, "Oh well you just can't take any chances with religion or the people who practice it, might as well get rid of it all." Yeah. By that same logic it was okay to kill tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians just to get at Saddam. By that logic hospitals should still be amputating infected limbs just to prevent the infection from spreading. By that logic we should abandon all modern technology just because it brought us nuclear, chemical, and biological warfare. It's the same argument creationists use - that science as a whole is unreliable and should be discarded because it makes a few mistakes.

Anyone who is so bigoted as to fight religious hatemongering with hatred of their own is really no better or different from the religious fanatics themselves.

#27
Jinny the Squinny

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Just for the record, I don't expect special treatment or extra politeness or anything like that purely because I'm less rabid than your average Merrkan fundie mentalist.

It probably is just the departure of the latest batch of trolls: I don't mind at all taking a bit of shit when I'm the only Christian left standing. Who's the daddy??? :-)

I don't believe either of those things speaks for or against religious beliefs as much as it speaks to the personalities of the folks involved.


Well, indeed. Being a fundie mentalist isn't a religious thing, it's a mental disorder that manifests itself in the form of one ideology or another. In my book the worst are the fundie mentalist capitalists: the ones that think the poor deserve it and reckon exploiting the third world is doing it a favour. What's worse is their breed of fundie mentalism is often considered normal or even a virtue in this day and age. Every age glorifies one manifestation of the disorder or another.

It's also true that any form of extremism tends to breed its exact opposite: people who find that kind of certainty and faith in something appealing but find the object of it repellent will often just make the opposite of the hated thing their object of affection. Also the classic mistake of seeing a wrong and so believing the opposite is automatically right. I see this a lot. Hate fascism? Become a Commie! Hate Communism? Become a Capitalist! Hate Christianity? Become an Atheist! Hate Liberals? Become a Fascist! When really, I think the thing that stops sensible people from becoming fundie mentalists is realising that the truth is generally somewhere in the middle...

#28
Ungodly

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Jinny,

Since you are not rabid at all, it is also true as you say that you are less rabid than a Merrikan fundie.

But I find the fact that your views on religious subjects are so often original and unique provides more appeal.

#29
The White Coyote

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I don't mind at all taking a bit of shit when I'm the only Christian left standing.


That may be true and I know you can handle it but you are our "Jinny" and I still don't think it's right. :Wink:

#30
Jinny the Squinny

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But I find the fact that your views on religious subjects are so often original and unique provides more appeal.


See that's the truly scary part. As far as I'm concerned, it's blindingly obvious that the coherent and sensible parts of my worldview are just an application of Jesus' actual teachings (as opposed to the false religions that make shit up about him). In that it's the same message of common sense, moderation and karitas that's been perpetuated by many people in many different contexts I find nothing original or unique about it.

Obviously I'm a very crap Christian-- I've never managed to do what I think is the right thing in certain areas of my life (my sex life and drug use spring to mind) and I think this is why I'm tolerant. Never mind a speck or a mote in my eye, I've got a teak dining table, four chairs, a matching sideboard and hostess trolley... :roll:

That may be true and I know you can handle it but you are our "Jinny" and I still don't think it's right. Wink


You have a point in that I am annoyed that people who ought to know me better still default to assuming that when it boils down to it I'm the same as a fundie mentalist under some "liberal" facade. It makes me want to thump my head off the desk, sometimes, it really does. I can assure you all I'm a WYSIWIG person and I really do appreciate the kudos from you chaps here. I was getting to the point of thinking "what's the fucking point?". :roll:

#31
The White Coyote

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I am not anti christian or anti religion. I don't always agree with the teachings but I am a curious person and like to read alternate views. I don't really care what a person believes as long as they don't try pounding my head with it. You have never done that Jinny. Instead you calmly and carefully state your own feelings and let it go at that. EA doesn't appreciate your contributions but I do. What a boring world this would be if everyone thought alike. :lol:


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